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Poster: stratocaster Date: Apr 7, 2013 1:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: TDIH '84 time for the "Brent talk...

http://archive.org/details/gd84-04-07.sbd.dodd.13816.sbeok.shnf

not a particularly epic show, but a standout West LA and Althea highlight the first set. Second set peaks with the Other One, which sans the Lesh bomb intro roll still shines with Garcia and Weir committed to some quality jamming, however the Other One also highlights (lowlights?) Brent Mydlands use of that dreadful tinkly keyboard tone that we all hear as a modified toddler xylophone/ piano...one would think and hope that this effect would have been used in one or two shows for fun and a gimmick, then would be quickly eschewed for more professional sounding soulful tones like a Wurlitzer or Hammond...however the damn stubbornness to drag out this effect for nearly every tune over a 4-5 year span is downright bastardly...amazing that Brent sat there and think that tone would sound good in the mix with tunes that were on fucking Europe 72...rant/

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Poster: RJ_Squirrel Date: Apr 7, 2013 1:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH '84 time for the 'Brent talk...

Blame the peruvian truckin' powder.
That is a pretty decent Althea though...I judge them by how much tinkle damage Brent inflicts (and thank god that song has no backup vocals).

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Poster: ColdRain108 Date: Apr 7, 2013 3:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: my advice...

is to stop listening to early 80's SBD's, as they are 100% worthless in my book.

Brent overloads -both vocally and instrumentally. He must have been getting all of his stage and crowd sound from the PA.

That SBD also left off the Phil roll. It was brief, but you can hear it much better on the AUD version.

The AUD is much better, you hear the keys behind Jerry, where they were intended to be.

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Poster: ColdRain108 Date: Apr 7, 2013 4:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: my advice...

this is good

http://archive.org/details/gd1984-07-15.beyerm160.quirk.perez.32295.sbeok.flac16

This is unlistenable:

http://archive.org/details/gd1984-07-15.sbd.walker-scotton.miller.96152.sbeok.flac16

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Apr 7, 2013 4:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: my advice...

given that example, I'm still going with the unlistenable board and gritting my teeth through the undesirable highs...detail is lost in some of the auds, even if you get the PA sound...

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Poster: ColdRain108 Date: Apr 7, 2013 8:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: my advice...

yeah, but the most important detail is lost in the unlistenable one, he is brutally quite throughout. At least with the AUD I can hear Jerry.

A Hunter Trix might do the trick.

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Apr 7, 2013 4:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: my advice...

not sure what type of sound equipment you listen with or just how much volume you prefer, but at a lower volume i might be inclined to agree that there is a slight edge to the AUD you favor but at what i prefer , very loud almost concert volume, i say the AUD cant hold a candle to the SBD. again not sure what type of equipment you listen with

for me.... http://archive.org/post/265417/how-do-you-listen-to-your-dead

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Apr 8, 2013 8:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH '84 time for the 'Brent talk...

strat -

Just in case you care. Here are my notes on the Irvine show. I also preferred the Dodd SBD.

6. 4/07/84 – Irvine Meadows, Irvine, CA

http://archive.org/details/gd84-04-07.sbd.dodd.13816.sbeok.shnf

a. Feel Like A Stranger* – Psychedelic funkiness? The boys sound like they are in a nice groove 6 shows into the year. Jerry and Bobby are meshed nicely during the jam at the 5:00 point.
b. West L.A. Fadeaway* – I thought it would take longer, but Brent’s keys have definitely grown on me. Still prefer Pig Pen and Keith over Brent, and much prefer ‘68-‘69, ‘72-‘73 and ‘77, but I am beginning to understand why people who saw the Dead for the first time in the Brent years enjoy this era.
c. Me and My Uncle – The obligatory run of cowboy tunes just to piss off the drummers? It’s like cilantro, you either like it or you don’t.
d. Mexicali Blues – See MAMU.
e. Althea* – This is good. Bobby’s rhythm is nice and growly. He and Jerry are locked in.
f. CC Rider* – Bobby’s rhythm is lead? From 5:20 or so on, Jerry and Bobby bring the tune home on fire. The only thing missing is Pig Pen and his harp. Unfortunate that the recording is cut. Also, whenever presented with the choice of B3 keys or tinkly keys, ALWAYS CHOOSE B3.
g. Big Railroad Blues* – The energy from CC bleeds into this version of BRB. They are having fun. A very nice tasty surprise buried in 1984.
h. My Brother Esau* – Really like Bobby’s rhythm work and pedal effects here. Also, the cowbell makes another appearance. What’s not to like? Far superior to the 4/1/84 MBE.
i. Touch of Grey – Now that we have the obligatory Jerry vocal flub out of the way...“blahuh nah nah morning sky...”. Nope, there’s more...”...oh well, uhhh, anyway...”. And in an ‘I’d like to buy a “B” Alex’ moment, “...Ables and the Kays and the Cees...”. He atoned himself somewhat with an okay guitar solo in the middle but even that kind of faded. I predict a train wreck when we get to the kerosene giving cow.....yup. What a mess. Apparently, after a strong start, whatever Jerry was on kicked his ass and they had to end the first set. Bobby sort of confirms it with this comment: “We’re gonna take a short break and warm up and we’ll be right back.” Nowhere from here but up.
j. Iko, Iko – Whatever they did at the break to “warm up” appears to have worked. Jerry’s playing seems crisper and his vocals stronger. Hope it stays.
k. Playin’ in the Band – Reasonably well played given how the first set ended, vocals starting to wobble again. Seems like the ‘80s Reader’s Digest version.
l. Uncle John’s Band – See playing.
m. Drums – Now we have some tinkly drums. Was actually okay to listen to.
n. Space – A nice D/S pairing.
o. Spanish Jam* – Not too sure about some of the effects they were using, but it was interesting enough to like.
p. The Other One* – Interesting vocal echo effects. Not as deep as the early versions, but solid enough for 1984. Kind of an abrupt ending into Wharf Rat. Another, short, constrained version.
q. Wharf Rat* – Jerry’s vocals were spotty and very tired sounding – Brent’s backing vocals were much better than Jerry. Great playing matched by equally bad singing. Solos and instrumental passages were almost sweeping and really pulled the song up. Despite the lack of strength in the vocals, this was a good version. Another case of falling off a cliff into the next song instead of any kind of transition jamming.
r. Throwing Stones* – Starting to like this song.
s. Not Fade Away – Couple of appearances by ‘James Brown’ Bobby.
t. Not Fade Away – Not sure what the fade away into a second track was all about. Get it? Maybe a discussion about which One More Saturday Night to close with?
u. One More Saturday Night* - Nice playing, very nice keys, the boys are hitting on all cylinders. Just in time for the last song.

All in all, not a bad show, but the entire second set seems compressed and ‘efficient’. Lots of potential to jam out the songs just a little bit more.

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Apr 8, 2013 8:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH '84 time for the 'Brent talk...

It's not the best show, it was one of my first tapes, you hit on the same highlights I take away from the show...Touch of Grey was played to the hilt in 84, funny how it was kind of a throw away, then three years later, it's opening second sets to thunderous applause...the version in 04-07 is pretty brutal...

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Poster: august_wst Date: Apr 8, 2013 8:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH '84 time for the 'Brent talk...

I have no qualms about your assessment on the sound of Brent's keyboards in this case...

HOWEVER! I do wonder why the same thing doesn't get said about Pig's keyboards which tend to be horribly basic and pizza-shop sounding most of the time, or for that matter Bobby's tinny rhythm sound and his "HAAAAA" screams... Jeeeezus! I have never understood why he thought that scream sounded good. Don't even get me started on Vince and his Casio plink plink...

Brent get's a lot of crap on here for much of the same stuff many of the other members are guilty of. When in fact there were many years he was the only one with any creativity or energy on that stage as Jerry fumbled around in an opium haze and Phil was in a Heineken induced stupor.

so there
:-)

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Apr 8, 2013 8:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH '84 time for the 'Brent talk...

in this era, 84, Brent's keyboards were a big detraction...Weir changed guitar tones pretty regularly through the years, some tones were awful (thin jangly circa 79 or over distorted circa 93-94) but some tones were right on...Mydland seems to have locked in on this ludicrous set up for a good 5 years...thank god he knew how to play a B-3...don't get me started on Welnick, whose biggest issue with me was not his dreadful tones, but rather his inability to loosen up and groove, depending on horribly redundant licks that are used in every damn version he plays, Pigpen's organ playing never bugged me too much, he seemde to always know when to stop playing...

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Apr 8, 2013 8:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH '84 time for the 'Brent talk...

What I have been finding out/guessing/surmising during my Year In review effort is that if you were first exposed to the Dead with Brent, then you probably like the jangly brightness when he tinkles on his organ. (Set to SDH....)

The B3 sound most/many/some of us prefer worked their way in and Brent fans probably took it in stride.

I have to agree with your assessment that they were a distraction when he was too high in the mix or just downright jangly tinkly. I have also found (after reading Little Sense's post about mixes, is that one source may sound like ass, while another of the same show sounds pretty good.

Also have to agree with aug about Bobby's. Not sure what's worse - his "Haaaas", his "Hiiiiiighers" or his falsetto whisper screeches.

Sometimes he makes Donna's caterwauling in Playin' or her "aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhoooooooooooo aaaaaaaahhhhhheeeeeee" aural waterboarding in some versions of Scar/Fire sound rather pleasant.

Maybe....almost. Not quite....okay, a little.

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Poster: ColdRain108 Date: Apr 8, 2013 9:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Like viewing a Monet on a crappy cell phone.

Or a sunset on TV.

My first show was the NYE 1980 show. They did an acoustic set and Brent had the real piano on stage, and it sounded great. I wish he had used that throughout his stay.

I never liked the tinkly electronica keyboard, but it is really only an giant pain when listening to the unbalanced SBD's, live it never really was an issue as it was in its proper place - behind Jerry - purely accompaniment. On the AUD tapes the same thing. Same with Vince, SBDs put him way to far in front. This is why judging the GD on the lame recordings is just not good form.

The B3 was there the whole time, wasn't that the real reason they liked Brent in the first place - the B3 that is? It was what made me tolerate anything else he did that I might not like as much, that B3 sound was just perfect in Deal.

Hucka Hucka hiya nananananana hucka hucka nanananananana

We used to mock Bobby from the front row when he went into his little rant. My sister was especially heartless about it. He couldn't miss her standing there hucka huckah hiya'ing back at him. He didn't appreciate our humor...Phil and Jerry did though.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Apr 9, 2013 8:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Like viewing a Monet on a crappy cell phone.

I thought it was interesting that, if I understand this correctly from an earlier post, sometimes what you hear on a SBD can be almost the opposite of what was heard in the hall: if one instrument was way up, it might not feed as much through the board, which had something to do with sending it to the PAs.OK, I've probably got that totally wrong, but that's how I understood it. (Fortunately someone will probably correct me.) But it makes sense to me, cuz I also don't remember Brent as being all THAT dominant.

My first shows were Keith and Donna, but that was only one run, and then it was Brent. I never liked the tinkly piano, and as I recall, that was a big reason why a lot of people were pretty slow to warm to him as "the new guy." But the B3 was always there too. I don't think the Toys R Us piano was all that super-dominant at the time; of course, maybe I blocked it :-)

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Poster: ColdRain108 Date: Apr 9, 2013 10:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Like viewing a Monet on a crappy cell phone.

you hit the nail right on the head. Inverse of what was really heard in the crowd.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Apr 9, 2013 5:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Like viewing a Monet on a crappy cell phone.

I assume that's why Charlie Miller et al do their jobs with the SBDs. Because otherwise it's not balanced or even representative historically. (Although those two things could be different. One person's "balanced" could be another person's "too much Brent," etc.)

But Phil also drops out of a lot of AUDs, which he didn't in the halls. My understanding is that this is because of how mics capture bass. (Namely, badly.) So when Phil is missing, it's not just the Heineken. Or so I've gathered, although I could be totally off base ...

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Poster: ColdRain108 Date: Apr 9, 2013 6:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Like viewing a Monet on a crappy cell phone.

This is why Hunter's matrix's are quite popular. You can offset the deficiancies of each by combining them. But it takes a loving ear to do it right.

too much Brent is too much, too much Jerry is impossible.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Apr 9, 2013 6:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Like viewing a Monet on a crappy cell phone.

LOL, I thought that, too. No one ever says "too much Jerry." And too much Phil is also impossible IMO.

When people remaster SBDs don't they also adjust levels?

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Poster: ColdRain108 Date: Apr 10, 2013 2:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Like viewing a Monet on a crappy cell phone.

you can't adjust the 2 track recordings very much. Just a little EQ here a little compression there. You can add and subtract some of Phil's low low and some of the very high end cymbals, but the instruments are pretty much set in stone without a multi-track recording, especially when they are so far out of balance, as the Brent-Jerry relationship seems to be.